Erionota torus torus ???

[Silverstreak]

Erionota torus torus ???

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/Schir/Sunny-Chir---EOS-1D-Mark-III--20_01_2012--0879-Copy5.jpg



The largest red eyes skipper I have ever seen, around one and a half time that of a E.hiraca apicalis and E.thrax thrax.


Here is another view of the same individual.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/Schir/Sunny-Chir---EOS-1D-Mark-III--20_01_2012--0882.jpg


:cheers:

PS : added second pic.

[Archduke]

Wow, the first shot is really amazing.

[Psyche]

No doubt about this. It is E. torus.
The broad wings & convex forewing termen. Small wonder they called it the Giant Skipper in India.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Silverstreak]

Thanks Mark for the kind words!

:cheers:

[Peacock Royal]

Very nice capture :thumbsup: of this rather rare skipper.
should upload the photos to the checklist

[Silverstreak]

No doubt about this. It is E. torus.
The broad wings & convex forewing termen. Small wonder they called it the Giant Skipper in India.

Thank you Dr. Seow for the confirmation!


Khew ,

This is the huge red-eyed skipper Nelson , Ellen and myself encountered two years back .

Do let me know if you require a voucher specimen , I have spotted a few cats and collected 2 pupae from where this Giant Skipper was hanging around.

Too bad the patch would not be there for long!!!

Cheers!

[Silverstreak]

Very nice capture :thumbsup: of this rather rare skipper.
should upload the photos to the checklist

Thanks Federick!

If not for having to send grandsons to kindergarten I would not have gone to the patch so early in the morning!!:)

:cheers:

[Blue Jay]

Great shots, Uncle Sunny!:thumbsup:

[Commander]

Do let me know if you require a voucher specimen , I have spotted a few cats and collected 2 pupae from where this Giant Skipper was hanging around.

Thanks. Should keep one newly-eclosed one as a reference.

Just for clarification, from the references on Malaysian/Singapore species, this one is recorded as E. torus up to species level only. Somehow Pisuth classified it to subspecies level as E. torus torus in his Butterflies of Thailand book, though I'm not sure why.

Seow has also confirmed its ID as E. torus.

As far as we are concerned, the two most reliable references are C&P4 and Fleming, both of which stopped at E. torus and that is what I've recorded as well, in my book.


Very nice capture :thumbsup: of this rather rare skipper. should upload the photos to the checklist

It's not rare actually, voucher specimens have been collected from a number of places. The ones that you've often shot too, are those feeding on Caryota mitis and it is regularly encountered at USR. It's just that we have mis-IDed it quite often as Banana Skipper. Check your own folders of this lookalike that you've shot many times at USR and you can see the similarity.

Other specimens that I've captured are from BTNR, Chestnut, Lor Halus and even Ubin. This species feeds on both the Fishtail Palm and Banana, whilst E. thrax apparently only feeds on Banana.

The sizes can vary by quite a lot, but I do have a specimen of E. thrax that is larger than any other specimen of E. torus that I have to date. Perhaps Sunny can find a specimen of E. torus to beat that one. :)

[Silverstreak]

The sizes can vary by quite a lot, but I do have a specimen of E. thrax that is larger than any other specimen of E. torus that I have to date. Perhaps Sunny can find a specimen of E. torus to beat that one.

Khew ,

You are right there about the size vary, one of the pupae just eclosed and the size is smaller than the one I encountered in the field.

Are both E. torus and E. thrax both having the same common name of Banana Skipper? :thinking: may be we should think of a Common Name to differential the two.



:cheers:

[Psyche]

Generally if there are no other known subspecies, then the subspecific name is dropped. In Yutaka's website there is an unamed subspecies from Laos.

The maximun forewing lenght of thrax ( given in C&P4) at 37mm exceed that of torus at 36mm.

Sunny's beautiful shot is a pristine female which with its rounded wings probably achieved a greater wing area than the female thrax.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Commander]

Are both E. torus and E. thrax both having the same common name of Banana Skipper? :thinking: may be we should think of a Common Name to differential the two.

Yup. I left the scientific name as E. torus in my book without a common name. I'm ok with using what Pisuth coined in his book - Giant Skipper, unless anyone has a better suggestion. :)

[teotp]

Thanks. Should keep one newly-eclosed one as a reference.

Just for clarification, from the references on Malaysian/Singapore species, this one is recorded as E. torus up to species level only. Somehow Pisuth classified it to subspecies level as E. torus torus in his Butterflies of Thailand book, though I'm not sure why.

Seow has also confirmed its ID as E. torus.

As far as we are concerned, the two most reliable references are C&P4 and Fleming, both of which stopped at E. torus and that is what I've recorded as well, in my book.

'Butterflies of Thailand - volume 5, page 88 & plate 30: fig. 192" of Brother Amnuay Pinratana and "The butterflies of Thailand based on Y. Kimura collection - volume 1, page 86" by Yunosuke Kimura et al, both stated as Erionota torus, Kimura also pointed out in his book (page 187) that Erionota thrax thrax by EK-Amnuay 2006, 810, pl 372 (male, female, female UN) was misidentified. Another male butterfly specimen collected by Akito Kawazoe in 1964 also identified as E. torus.

Brigadier W. H. Evans in his book "A catalogue of the Hesperiidae from Europe, Asia & Australia, page 326" stated only one species (no sub-sp) and named Erionota torus. He is the person first decribed this species (type specimen from Sikkim) in 1941. This is why: "Erionota torus Evans 1941"

Teo T P

[Silverstreak]

Khew,

I am ok with the common name of "" Giant Skipper"". for E. torus .... it is weird to have two Banana Skippers unless we wanna name them Big Banana skipper and Small Banana Skipper!! :bsmile:

:cheers:

[Silverstreak]

Thiam Peng,

Thank you for the additional information!


'Butterflies of Thailand - volume 5, page 88 & plate 30: fig. 192" of Brother Amnuay Pinratana and "The butterflies of Thailand based on Y. Kimura collection - volume 1, page 86" by Yunosuke Kimura et al, both stated as Erionota torus, Kimura also pointed out in his book (page 187) that Erionota thrax thrax by EK-Amnuay 2006, 810, pl 372 (male, female, female UN) was misidentified. Another male butterfly specimen collected by Akito Kawazoe in 1964 also identified as E. torus.

No wonder I was having problem with the E.thrax thrax on Pisuth's plate, they look exactly like the E. torus except much smaller in size.:)


Cheers!

[Silverstreak]

The ones that you've often shot too, are those feeding on Caryota mitis and it is regularly encountered at USR. It's just that we have mis-IDed it quite often as Banana Skipper. Check your own folders of this lookalike that you've shot many times at USR and you can see the similarity.

Other specimens that I've captured are from BTNR, Chestnut, Lor Halus and even Ubin. This species feeds on both the Fishtail Palm and Banana, whilst E. thrax apparently only feeds on Banana.

The second pupa eclosed this morning , a female , its size is comparable to the one I encountered in the field ........Big. The first one that eclosed the day before I suspect it to be a male. Both are destined as reference specimen.

The two pupae were collected from a banana plant. It would be interesting to compare size with those from USR that feed on Fish Tail Palm (Caryoto mitis).:)


:cheers:

[Blue Jay]

Yup. I left the scientific name as E. torus in my book without a common name. I'm ok with using what Pisuth coined in his book - Giant Skipper, unless anyone has a better suggestion. :)

I find that Giant Skipper is not very appropriate in this case. "Skipper" is a general term for Hesperiidae butterflies, and there are many other giant skippers, like the Redeyes or Hoary Palmer.:thinking: The problem is, I can't think of any otehr common name for it!:bsmile:

[Psyche]

I find that Giant Skipper is not very appropriate in this case. "Skipper" is a general term for Hesperiidae butterflies, and there are many other giant skippers, like the Redeyes or Hoary Palmer.:thinking: The problem is, I can't think of any otehr common name for it!:bsmile:

Perhaps an alternative name might just be Torus Skipper.
Torus, Latin for cushion or swelling (not the geometric figure ) probably described an anatomical part that separate it from E. thrax.

There are many examples of other common names derived from the species name.eg.
Ganda Dart (P. ganda); ganda - from Ganda surname of the Battaks of Sumatra.
Linna Palm Dart (T. linna ) linna - from Linn, a person's first name.
Besta Palm Dart ( T. besta ) besta - from Best, probably a person's name.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Silverstreak]

Perhaps an alternative name might just be Torus Skipper.
Torus, Latin for cushion or swelling (not the geometric figure ) probably described an anatomical part that separate it from E. thrax.

There are many examples of other common names derived from the species name.eg.
Ganda Dart (P. ganda); ganda - from Ganda surname of the Battaks of Sumatra.
Linna Palm Dart (T. linna ) linna - from Linn, a person's first name.
Besta Palm Dart ( T. besta ) besta - from Best, probably a person's name.

TL Seow:cheers:


I like this better than Giant Skipper......The Torus Skipper .

:cheers:

[Commander]

I like this better than Giant Skipper......The Torus Skipper .

Yeah, this gets my vote too!

Thanks for the voucher specimens. The smaller specimen, unfortunately broke its left wing after too much activity in the container. :-(

But what intrigues me, was that the smaller specimen has straight termen, suggesting a male E. thrax thrax! The female had convex termen consistent with E. torus. So now it has me wondering whether you found both species at that banana tree! :hmmm:

[Silverstreak]

Went back and collected 3 pupae.....they all eclosed this morning

You might be right, , both species might be on the same hostplant at the same time...... out of 3 eclosed, one is smaller and having a straight termen, the other two with convex termen.

Can it be 2 coincidences of both species on the same plant and eclosing at the same time???:hmmm:

:thinking: May be we should consider investigating the genitalia of the smaller individual with straight termen to verify if it is a E. thrax or a E. torus????



:cheers:

[Psyche]

[QUOTE=Silverstreak;110138]Went back and collected 3 pupae.....they all eclosed this morning

You might be right, , both species might be on the same hostplant at the same time...... out of 3 eclosed, one is smaller and having a straight termen, the other two with convex termen.

Can it be 2 coincidences of both species on the same plant and eclosing at the same time???:hmmm:

:thinking: May be we should consider investigating the genitalia of the smaller individual with straight termen to verify if it is a E. thrax or a E. torus????

No need if you have the specimen or upperside view.

In Erionota thrax
1. The forewing apex is slightly whitened along the edge.( not so in E. torus.)
2. The small spot in space 3 is usually more or less triangular (quadrate or squarish in E. torus. )
3. The big spot in space 2 have its outer/inner margins straight or convex.( one or both margins indented in E. torus. )

TL Seow:cheers:

[Silverstreak]

Dr Seow ,

Thanks for the inputs, I will let Khew do the eye-squinting works!!:bsmile:

:cheers: