Skipper - ID please

[Glorious Begum]

I am not sure of its ID. Please assist. Many thanks :cheers:


http://www.pbase.com/lcgoh/image/145658699.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/lcgoh/image/145630582.jpg

[horace2264]

Looks like Taractrocera ardonia lamia to me. :thinking:

[Silverstreak]

It really looks like a Taractrocera ardonia lamia

http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist%20V2/CI/index.php/start-page/startpage/showbutterfly/279

[Commander]

Shot in Malaysia? It looks more like the 3rd of the Taractrocera species to me. The antenna without apiculus puts it into the genus.

But the larger post discal spots on the forewing indicates that it's more likely T. ziclea zenia.

[horace2264]

The forewing postdiscal spots in LC's pic do not look large enough though. :thinking:
Here is a pic of Taractrocera ardonia lamia taken in CCA sometimes ago, showing that the spots are of about the same size.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/horace2264/TAL_adult_01.jpg

[WillFolsom]

I continue to be challenged (and frequently defeated) in my attempts to identify our skippers, from newly hatched males and females, to older, faded, and battered butterflies. In addition, thanks to the very exact science of identification you BC members have, I've learned to be even more cautious about trying to identify local species. William

[Commander]

Thanks for your shot, Horace. I did a search for more images across the net, and found that BC had the most shots featuring this species. ;P The problem with C&P4 is that it only shows one single specimen of each. I have a couple of voucher specimens that match Fig 1 on that Plate for T. ardonia, but others have larger spots.

Any other references around that show both species with males and females?

[Painted Jezebel]

Shot in Malaysia? It looks more like the 3rd of the Taractrocera species to me. The antenna without apiculus puts it into the genus.

But the larger post discal spots on the forewing indicates that it's more likely T. ziclea zenia.

I agree with Horace. Not only are the hindwing spots small, but also, the spot colouration looks too pale for it to be T. ziclea. (Caution-Only using C&P4 for id as I have no direct experience with T.ziclea)

[Psyche]

Agreed, it is T. ardonia.

Apart from the larger & more orangey spots, T. ziclea have the upperside hindwing spots 2 big & 1 small, vs. 1 big & 2 small for ardonia.

Can't seem to find any image of T. ziclea on the web. Must be pretty rare.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Commander]

Thanks, Seow.

:bsmile: Nowadays must throw contrarian (or silly) views to spark some debate and activity on our quiet forums, since most of the action has now migrated to Facebook of late.

What if we throw another spin into the debate and say that, what we have shot all along in Singapore was actually T. ziclea and misidentified as T. ardonia? Would that be possible, notwithstanding Seow's observations of the upperside hindwing spots?

Has anyone else come across specimen shots of T. ziclea in any books and can share them here? :)

[Psyche]

You have a point there, Khew.
Just cannot find any image that would suggest it is T. ziclea.
However, here is an ineresting shot of ' T. ardonia ' by Kurt last year.
Note the hindwing postdiscal spots are rather large.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5077/5904410200_9366d5a3e7_z.jpg

TL Seow:cheers:

[Psyche]

I forgot ziclea now falls as the junior synonym of T. luzonensis.

Here is the norminate subspecies of T. luzonensis from the Phillipines.
http://www.globaltwitcher.com/photo/038967_w_300.jpg

TL Seow:cheers:

[horace2264]

The book "Butterflies of Borneo", vol.2, no.2 has a plate for T. ziclea. Here is a cropped pic taken with my hand phone. Not a good qualify pic, but should give an idea of the size and arrangement of spots for both sexes.


http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/horace2264/T_ziclea_plate-H174_BOB_v2_no2-x.jpg

[Psyche]

Thats it.
The key differences of our local race T. luzonensis zenia from the female T. archias are that spots 4/5 are quite or almost detached, and the veins on the hndwing are darkened.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Silverstreak]

Another upper shot of our Taractrocera ardonia lamia

[Commander]

After looking at Horace's post, it would then appear that T. ziclea would more likely be confused with T. archias rather than T. ardonia! The spots are more orangey and larger compared to T. ardonia's more "spotty" appearance, which gives some basis for its common name of Spotted Grass Dart. :)

[Glorious Begum]

Thanks all for ID.:cheers: