ID help appreciated for Hesperiidae specimen

[gkbaliga]

Is it possible to id this?

Shot in Mangalore, Coastal area of Karnataka State, India

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/925/29367749928_fc0013a5b0_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LK8oU1)20171008-IMG_9221 (https://flic.kr/p/LK8oU1) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

Thanks in advance

[Psyche]

Parnara bada (with only two spots)
Antennae short with stubby clubs.
Examples with reduced nos. of spots not rare.

Parnara bada usually with 4-5 spots in a line. short antenna. thick club; hindwing sometimes with a cellspot right at the very end(apex).
Male with HW cellspot.Singapore.
https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/2464963/large.jpg?1443780933
Female India.
https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Parnara_bada#/media/File:African_Straight_Swift_(Parnara_bada)_in_Vana sthalipuram,_Hyderabad,_AP_W_IMG_9229.jpg
Female with two spots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parnara_bada#/media/File:Parnara_bada-Kadavoor-2016-09-09-001.jpg

Similar.
Borbo typically with 3 HW spots in space 2, 3, & 6; additional spots may be present; never less than 3.
Note spot 6 is always set further in than in Parnara.
B. cinnara.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KaVjdL_FAME/U152N_2DObI/AAAAAAAAdUc/5BJKeJq6wCY/s1600/FS_adult_Khew_01.jpg
B. bevani.
http://dearlep.tw/images/Papilionoidea/Hesperiidae/Borbo%20bevani%20%E5%81%87%E8%A4%90%E5%BC%84%E8%9D %B6_%E6%9D%8E%E6%A6%AE%E8%8A%B3.jpg
The female Caltoris kumara usually have one HW spot 2.
http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/CaltorisKumara/CaltorisKumara_KSaji_ac507.jpg

TL Seow: Cheers.

[gkbaliga]

Thank you very much Dr Seow

Two doubts

1. As I understand it, Parnara bada would have a spot in space 6. Am I right? It's not as much visible in my specimen or is it so faint that inexperienced person like me is not able to make out?

2. How to distinguish male / female.

Thanks in advance.

[Psyche]

Different authors have given keys to ID the Parnara species but are very confusing.
However, there is only one species in southern India ie P. bada.
The other three are found to the north & north east.
I am referring mainly to Evans.

P. bada; FW typically no cellspot, very rarely an upper cellspot. HW spots variable,yellowish, typically well separated & irregular in alignment ; may have no HW spot.
HW spot 6 present only in fully spotted forms.
Pair male on the left.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5139/5484338081_eb908485ab.jpg
Male.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:African_Straight_Swift_(Parnara_bada)_in_Nars hapur_forest,_AP_W_IMG_1077.jpg
Female.
http://dearlep.tw/species.html?namecode=345485

Parnara ganga. NE reagions.
FW may have a lower cellspot; HW spots yellowish , large ,close,slightly irregular, spot 6 absent (almost always).
Females.
http://www.flutters.org/home/photogallery/plog-content/images/butterfliesbrnbspnbspnbsphesperiidae-the-skippers-br/subfamily-hesperiinae--brnbspnbspnbsp-genus-parnara--swift-/parnara-ganga-up-malabar-hills-02sep11_blaisepereira.jpg
https://wingscales.com/content/record/481-1-0492e.jpg

Parnara apostata ;Northeast.
FW without cellspot.
HW spots white close in a straight line increasing in size downwards.HW spot 6 present.
Female.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R1LW7DbcOyk/VNgK7w0RwAI/AAAAAAAAT8g/B1MxF3sWNBY/s1600/DSC_0338.JPG
Male.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/camerar/24127230969

Parnara guttata. North & northeast.
FW cellspots two in the male; female lower cellspot usually absent.
HW spots white in a straight row increasing downwards; HW spot 6 absent.
Female.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Parnara_guttata_bytreef.jpg
Male.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parnara_guttata#/media/File:Parnara.guttata.jpg

2. Male skipper.
Profile shorter, FW apex more blunt. abdominal end square-cut brush-like.

Female skipper.
Proflie elongate ;FW more triangular, apex more pointed; abdominal end a slanting cut, may have a cleft at lower end.

TL Seow: Cheers.

[gkbaliga]

Thank you so much Dr. Seow for replying with so much patience.

:):):)

[gkbaliga]

Greetings from South India Dr. Seow

All these images of the same specimen of skipper shot around Western Ghat base, Mangalore, Karnataka, India were shot by my friend Rahul
Could it be Polytremis lubricans or Baoris farri ? With your previous training, I can make out it is Female :grin2:
I am little confused with how to differentiate.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48577761022_b10404b49c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h1DHVQ)Skppper (https://flic.kr/p/2h1DHVQ) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48577761187_ba0a7a8770.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h1DHYF)Skppper1 (https://flic.kr/p/2h1DHYF) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48577609411_90375d065f.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h1CWRR)Skppper2 (https://flic.kr/p/2h1CWRR) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48577609476_066b19667a.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2h1CWSY)Skppper3 (https://flic.kr/p/2h1CWSY) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

[Psyche]

Female Baoris farri.

Female wingshape, spot in space 1b; UnH without spots; Shape of FW spots are that of Baoris.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sYt6GjV-TMA/V7Y4G52HtzI/AAAAAAAAKCE/-ixR1hyUq88NkXgEWe7PTPQD-O8wyoNmgCLcB/s1600/Baoris%2Bfarri1.jpg
https://alchetron.com/cdn/baoris-farri-99a6edc4-0d9b-48f9-8297-6417be034be-resize-750.jpeg

Polytremis lubricans ;UnH ochreous brown with a coarse texture, with spots; FW spots distinctly yellow; cellspots often conjoined; spot 2 very large, often oval.
https://wingscales.com/content/record/501-1-fa9bf.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Polytremis_lubricans_1.jpg

TL Seow: Cheers.

[gkbaliga]

Thank you very much Dr. Seow

[gkbaliga]

Greetingd Dr. Seow

All these images are taken from Sammilan Shetty Butterfly Park, Belvai at the base of the Western Ghats in Karnataka State, India

There are clippings from videos. Is it possible to identify these specimens sir?

1.https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48690075487_4e56763ed2.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hbzn78)01 (https://flic.kr/p/2hbzn78) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr


2. Could this be a Bush Hopper?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48689566943_001c23db5a.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hbwKW8)02A (https://flic.kr/p/2hbwKW8) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

3.Could this be a Pygmy Scrub Hopper?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48689567003_92ec23f884.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hbwKXa)03 (https://flic.kr/p/2hbwKXa) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

4. All the following are of the same specimen
Could this be Potanthus Psuedomesa?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48689567118_ce6944b058.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hbwKZ9)04 (https://flic.kr/p/2hbwKZ9) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48690075922_ece166c30a.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hbzneC)04a (https://flic.kr/p/2hbzneC) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48689905791_7b6b602df1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hbyuEk)04B (https://flic.kr/p/2hbyuEk) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

5. In this Oriens Goloides?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48689567263_8e9256b40b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hbwL2D)05 (https://flic.kr/p/2hbwL2D) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

6. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48690076072_63f685a220.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hbznhd)06 (https://flic.kr/p/2hbznhd) by GKBaliga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/93793400@N02/), on Flickr

[Psyche]

Post 9.

1. should be Pelopidas mathias.
The underside is unevenly shaded grey .


P. thrax has a uniform ground colour; Male has a white brand .?Face & chest whiter.
http://www.eurobutterflies.com/sp/thrax.php


2 is Bush Hopper, Ampittia dioscorides.

3. is Pygmy Scrub Hopper.
The cilia is uniform grey.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sp/492/Aeromachus-pygmaeus

In A jhora the cilia is chequered (Checkered).
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sp/3088/Aeromachus-jhora

[Psyche]

4. is Potanthus pseudomaesa.
5 sp. of Potanthus in South India.

P. pseudomaesa ;FW with slight overlap between spot 3 & 4; no overlap between spot 5 & 6 ;Abdominal end narrow black band.
HW apical spot of band projected out.Un with dark spots.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/2018/398_20780-635-59ef23dd6c313-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/2015/171_7165-90-55a941a69905b-3.jpg

P. confucius ;FW more continuous & veins generally not dark ;Uusually spots 4 & 5 with overlap above & below them.Abdominal end mostly yellw ;dark band may be absent.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/2016/164_11176-187-56d6e216ee965-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/Potanthus/PotanthuSp_GirishMohan_an073.jpg

P. pava.Similat to P. confucius with FW continuous band; larger with longer FWs; Male FW base of space 3 orange (as Telicota colon male)
Abdominal end mostly orange.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/2017/164_15562-730-5843c82f9fd27-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/2018/589_22804-419-5a278d638ef1b-1.jpg

P. palnia ;FW spots 4 & 5 with little overlap below ;spot 5 smaller than spot 4; Underside shaded dark greenish without spots;abdominal end black.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/2016/365_10988-729-56bca4df0929d-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/2016/99_10747-855-56a0f2ee46d1f-1.jpg
https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4536/37999817064_e5eb33ea48_b.jpg

P. pallida ;FW spot 4 % without overlap, widely detached ; HW apical spot strongly projected out;abdominal end dark; Un darkish with vague spots.
Sri Lanka.
https://biodiversityofsrilanka.blogspot.com/2016/01/indian-dartpallid-dart-potanthus-pallida.html?m=1
Female.
http://slbutterflies.lk/storage/app/public/butterflies/b1492795764.JPG
India.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/2015/171_4982-640-551673e0a32a9-1.jpg
Male on the left.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4007/4261960169_78cc85b483_b.jpg
Female.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4056/4261887575_9230a43632_z.jpg


5. Oriens gola.
O. goloides have the veins dark-dusted.

[Psyche]

6. Pseudocoaldenia dan dan.
The horse-shoe cellspot is characteristic.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/#!/sp/776/Pseudocoladenia-dan

TL Seow: Cheers.

[gkbaliga]

Thank you so much Dr. Seow.

I am sorry most of the photos were not of good quality. Actually we took clippings from videos.
Still you have given us proper ids.

[gkbaliga]

I hope you write a book on identifying butterflies Dr Seow
(If you haven't written so far that is)

Please let us know if you have already written or planning to write.

[Psyche]

I hope you write a book on identifying butterflies Dr Seow
(If you haven't written so far that is)

Please let us know if you have already written or planning to write.

I have thought of that but it is just too difficult.
Most of the IDs as you may have know by now are based on an educated guess, by checking the descriptions, the images available, comparing the markings ,cross checking other species in the same region, eg S. India 5 species of Potanthus, Sri Lanka 3 similar species, Taiwan 2 species confucius & pava similar, etc.
Species also varies a lot & across different countries.
Many images have only the underside view & the label may be incorrect.

I am leaving this on hold.

TL Seow: Cheers.

[gkbaliga]

Very true Dr. Seow

I being in South India have made my notes on the 5 Potanthus species occuring here, but still doubt crops up, just as an example.

Thanks for everything