ID requests

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

Got a few butterflies which I require some help with the IDs. Thank you!

1. Miletus sp.
27720

2. Miletus biggsii?
27721
27722

3. Potanthus sp.
27723

4. Potanthus sp.
27724

5. Caltoris cormasa?
27725

[Psyche]

1, male 2 female Miletus biggsii


Miletus is very difrficult.
M. biggsii usually have FW postdiscal spot strongly shifted out from the spots 4 & 5 below.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IN0ardGg2yA/U224o99KFdI/AAAAAAAAMCU/4eRu1QnZ-PQ/s1600/BiggsBrownwing-LokePF.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/2480/3845385600_328aca959d_z.jpg

Of the other species this spot 6 is in line or nearly so with the spots below.

M. symethus is recognised by the obscure spots & white shading of the apices of both wings, HW postdiscal spots inner margin dark shaded.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Miletus%20symethus%20petronius/Miletus-symethus-petronius---Sim.jpg

The other two, M. gopara & gaesa are no recent record.
M gopara female have a prominent tooth like tail.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PTIaTlD5yTs/VlMrjaMsIoI/AAAAAAAAXk4/y772RpdWkWk/s400/DSC_0105.JPG

M gaesa is mainly brown above.
Probable M. gaesa but no upperside view.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Miletus%20biggsii%20biggsii/biggs%20Brownie%20-%20Ellen%20Tan.JPG


3 & 4 are Potanthus omaha females.
Female Potanthus usually have dark shadings on the abdominal ends causing confusion.


P. omaha veins dark dusted on both surfaces.
Male.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/172145453/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/215107871/large.jpg
Females.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/87084213/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/172861026/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/206195231/large.jpeg


5. Fairly typical male Caltoris cormasa.



TL Seow: Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Thank you Dr Seow!

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

A few more confusing ones I need help with. Thank you

1. Nacaduba sp. The undersides look like N. calauria, but the uppersides are pale blue like N. berenice.
27727
27728
27729

2. Nacaduba sp. Did not manage to get the uppersides.
27730
27731

3. Lasippa tiga or heliodore? The tongue-like spot seems rather well separated.
27732

[Psyche]

In any collection in the past there is always several odd specimens which do not fit properly.

1. The underside & upperside suggest a cross between a male berenice & a female calauria.
Only a male berenice can pass on the genes for the white ribbon scales giving it its frosted pale blue colour.

Indian ssp showing upper & underside.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nacaduba_berenice_plumbeomicans_-_Rounded_Six-Lineblue_%285%29_male.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nacaduba_berenice_plumbeomicans_-_Rounded_Six-Lineblue_%281%29_female.jpg

Singapore males with confirmed uppersides.
N. berenice.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3X4VsrE-6K8/V1TT8oTGz0I/AAAAAAAAaMQ/8s5SdDKDHjoY3NxSL1CguvImrNiSU4AuQCLcB/s1600/DSC_2769.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pzK2I4_Ew60/UmybzHJktOI/AAAAAAAAMP8/wIsX0VVoGc8/s1600/HFH_8087-Nacaduba-berenice-icena.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/117086399/original.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/38306104/large.jpg

Singapore male N. calauria.
https://wanderingbutterflyeffect.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/6a0100a801ee89000e011017b3ad98860e.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/214547892/large.jpg
Female right.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Nacaduba%20calauria%20malayica/Nacaduba_calauria%20-%20Henry%20Koh.jpg

I can find no confirmed males of N. berenice with a straight FW band.
Likewise that of N. calauria is almost always straight though a bit of crookedness may be present.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/81280010.html
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/81260020.html
Below the male from Phetchabun is actually kurava .
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/81260010.html


FW submarginal spots 4 & 5 are triangular esp females in calauria. HW only submarginal spots 4 & 5 have points.

FW submarginal spots 4 & 5 are chevron, more 'V' shaped in berenice . HW submarginal spot 3 or all the spots may be pointed.
The Biodiversity of Singapore website's N. calauria is almost certainly a male N. berenice.


I will like to show another anomaly.
Federick Ho 2014 Lornie Trail
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2z1tHnAAtb0/U4DCA5kWkyI/AAAAAAAAOBw/s-kofhLpby4/s1600/HFH_2311-Nacaduba+berenice+%2528male%2529.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-m0mSgms7_-o/U4DCA2QbBUI/AAAAAAAAOBs/y_UgUYAQTt4/s1600/HFH_2320-Nacaduba+berenice.jpg
The strong dark striae within the bands is indicative of N. berenice, but the innermost costal spot is missing.

In contrast N beroe male have the dark striae near obsolete & the upperside deeper violet blue.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Nacaduba%20beroe%20neon/NB_adult_male_01.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Nacaduba%20beroe%20neon/SixLineBlue.jpg
India.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sites/default/files/791_30346-809-5b2d8c0b68f69-1_1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sites/default/files/791_30346-809-5b2d8c0b68f69-2_1.jpg
Added: Singapore male N. beroe.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/158093466/large.jpg
https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/55157210/large.jpeg



2. Nacaduba berenice.
The crooked FW band & the narrow V submarginal spot 4 & 5 are typical.


3. Lassipa tiga.
No L. heliodore have the tongue spot cutting across the cell bar.
in L. tiga FW submarginal spot3 is at least 2X the width of spot 4 in both sexes.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Lasippa%20tiga%20siaka/ML_Horace_01.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Lasippa%20tiga%20siaka/Maalyan%20Lascar%20-%20Khew.jpg

In L. heliodore.
FW submarginal spot 3 is almost as wide as spot 4 in the male , but wider by half in the female.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3537/3662833694_e6a4f2a703.jpg



TL Seow; Cheers.
PS. The identification of butterflies is based on the male.
Thus 1 is considered a male N. berenice.

[LJK1410]

Thank you Dr Seow!

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

Someone sent me this Nacaduba for ID and I would like to hear your opinion. I assume its a female since it seems like its ovipositing and there are many eggs. The FW post-discal band is dislocated like N. berenice, but the very large and rounded submarginal spots are are more typical of N. kurava.

27738
Photo credits: Jess Loh

[Psyche]

Post 7.

Female Nacaduba berenice icena.
Note broken FW postdiscal band & HW submarginal spot 6 with angular inner margin.


Female N. berenice ;Almost always FW band is dislocated, crooked or broken.
HW submarginal spot 6 with angular margin, not regularly rounded.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/182586927/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/181180577/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/190847835/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/181945595/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/214309525/large.jpg


Female Nacaduba kurava. FW postdiscal band almost always straight & unbroken.
FW upper 4 submarginal spots always rounded.
HW submarginal spot 6 rounded or oval with regular rounded margin.
https://wanderingbutterflyeffect.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/6a0100a801ee89000e00fad6b787da0005.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Nacaduba%20kurava%20nemana/NK_female_02.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/207918738/large.jpg
https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/142563892/large.jpeg
India.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sites/default/files/29NacadubaKurava_KSaji_ae302.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sites/default/files/106_9932-120-5658a7ff038d1-1_1.jpg


TL Seow: Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Thank you Dr Seow

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

Here are a few Rapala shot by Jess at Sungei Buloh Wetland Reserve. The post discal bands seem to be a lot darker and more prominent than usual and the orange crown seems to be more of a thin ring, also seen at a mangrove, could it be Rapala cowani?

1.
27801

2.
27802
27803
27804

*All photos taken by Jess Loh

[Psyche]

Post 10.

They are all females of Rapala dieneces. Correction: Rapala cowani females.
2 is more readily identiafiable.
The postdiscal band is orange brown.
The UpF have a copper-brown patch.
Typical females.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Rapala%20dieneces%20dieneces/ScarletFlash_Nelson.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Rapala%20dieneces%20dieneces/ScarletFlash%20-%20Chng.jpg

1 is taken without a flash & appeared greyer & darker.
Note diffusion of orange into space 3 & 4 is common in R. dieneces.

Another species to look out for is R. scintilla.
This closely resembles R. manea but is grey tinged on the underside.
Male have only the HW upperside blue-shot. In R manea it is both; Females are identical.
It is possible some of the grey R. manea is R. scintilla.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Rapala%20manea%20chozeba/SF_adult_male_underside_03.jpg
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4i/84070001.html


Typical R. manea 2 males, 2 females.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Rapala%20manea%20chozeba/SF_adult_male_03.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Rapala%20manea%20chozeba/SF_adult_male_01.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Rapala%20manea%20chozeba/Slate%20Flash%20-%20Khew.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Rapala%20manea%20chozeba/Slate-Flash---Simon-Sng.jpg


R. cowani is grey with the postdiscal band dark grey.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/013376642_Rapala_corwani_Corbet_1939_PT.jpg/1200px-013376642_Rapala_corwani_Corbet_1939_PT.jpg
Riau Island.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/59281255/original.jpeg?1578494354



TL Seow: Cheers.

[atronox]

The Rapala are female Rapala cowani- the greyish ventral ground colour (from all angles and under different lighting conditions- the orange scales around the tornal black spot contrast strongly with the ground colour; in dieneces and relatives this contrast is weaker because of the ground colour which is already ochreous), visible dark scaling proximal to the post-medians, heavier submarginal markings and cupreous patches on the dorsal side all check out.

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow, I would agree more with Aaron at least for the second individual, the ground colour seems too greyish from that of the regular pale brown of female R. dieneces we typically see. In C&P5 it mentions in the key ID feature for R. cowani females "uppersides always with a cupreous discal patch on the forewing and sometimes with a cupreous subtornal patch on the hindwing", which closely resembles that in the pictures. Could you have another look at it again?

[Psyche]

Hi Dr Seow, I would agree more with Aaron at least for the second individual, the ground colour seems too greyish from that of the regular pale brown of female R. dieneces we typically see. In C&P5 it mentions in the key ID feature for R. cowani females "uppersides always with a cupreous discal patch on the forewing and sometimes with a cupreous subtornal patch on the hindwing", which closely resembles that in the pictures. Could you have another look at it again?

Yes. I would concede Aaron is correct.

Both are female Rapala cowani females.


My confusion stem from the fact that all four live shots of Rapala cowani I have seen, one from Johor, P. Malaysia, two from Pulau Ubin & the fourth from Riau are distinctly grey as in the Riau example.
But this looks obviously different from the typical female Rapala dieneces.
I may add the FW margin is crenate ie scalloped more strongly in the female this species.


TL Seow: Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Thank you for all the inputs Dr Seow and Aaron! Hopefully there would be more individuals of this elusive species seen in the near future :grin2:

[Psyche]

This is one of the female from Pulau Ubin.
https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/195635468/large.jpeg

I was emailed another similar grey female from Chek Jawa , Pulau Ubin years ago but did not keep the image.

It would be good to check out the male.


TL Seow: Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

I was relooking at the ID features of Ypthima baldus and Ypthima horsfieldii and it seems there are a lot of different opinions on how to distinguish the two. Initially I thought the way to differentiate the two was whether the HW ocelli in spaces 5&6 and 2&3 are adjoined or separated, it seems like a consistent feature in those that I have shot. But looking through the forums and other references, it seems that is not the correct way. May I ask what the "correct" way (if there is one) to distinguish them? Thank you!

Some of my Ypthima shots, please correct them if I got the ID wrong:

Ypthima baldus:
27821
27822

Ypthima horsfieldii:
27823
27824
27825
27826

[Psyche]

This is one of those complrx issue which no one has answered properly.

Eliot opined that during the formation of Sundaland & the subsequent separation of the landmasses several taxa were established thus.
taxon newboldi Isthmus of Kra.
taxon humei Malaya.
taxon moerus Sumatra
taxon selinuntius Borneo.
taxon horsfieldi Java.

When Malaya rejoined the mainland, taxon newboldi moves into it. Thus two taxa humei & newboldi occur in Malaya.

The Javan taxon was shown to be different enough to elevated as a separate species Y. horsfieldii.
Eliot surmise the two taxa newboldi & humei have not fully intergrated & can be recognised as separate species.
He concluded that humei, the Sundanian form can be treated as a subspecies of the Javanese Y. horsfieldii.
Taxon newboldi would remain as a ssp. of the continental Y. baldus.
He suggest that the Sumatran moerus & the Bornean selinuntius are part of (ie ssp) Y. horsfieldii.


Many authors have not adopt this view.
Yukata does not recognise Y. horsfieldii humei & lump all under Y. baldus newboldi.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/sat/41000010.html

A DNA barcoding study down in 2015 by a team from the University of Malaya concluded that 1, taxon newboldi should be treated as a new species from Y. baldus and 2 Y. horsfieldi humei and Y. nebulosa are the same species.
See pdf article.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ypthima+humei&rlz=1C1MSIM_enMY705MY706&sxsrf=ALiCzsZzqD1tFZ8kzvkDf7IKxOva6-GTqw:1660725467876&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiH4tO8vM35AhXA6jgGHYf0CDcQ_AUoAXoECAEQA w&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1#imgrc=QHnIUgXPtVQ5sM

These views are also not universally accepted.
It is easy to cross the border & mis-identifed something as Y. nebulosa.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/sat/41020001.html
As for taxon newboldi it probably can be defined as a separate species from Y. baldus.

However, we are only concerned about the differences of these two taxa Y. horsfieldi humei & Y. baldus newboldi .
Undoubtedly there will be some hybrids causing great difficulty.


Y. horsfieldii horsfieldii from Java; There are forms with large conjoined ocelli.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bewellandthrive/48806657387
https://www.jungledragon.com/image/102443/the_horsfields_six-ring_ypthima_horsfieldii_horsfieldii.html

Ypthima baldus selinuntius from Borneo. No author have consider this a ssp. of Y. horsfieldi (though this appear logical.)
https://www.jamiun.com/ypthima-baldus-common-five-ring/



Y. baldus newboldi.
Ground colour buff, very pale yellowish brown with the striae median or ochreous brown
Usually HW spot 6 smaller than spot 5, & spots 2 & 3 conjoined.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DN5O-c2TqL0/UwcTpGziJPI/AAAAAAAAb9A/m5w3NLU3bB8/s1600/CFR_adult_Anthony_01.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Ypthima%20baldus%20newboldi/CFR_mating_pair_Bobby.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Ypthima%20baldus%20newboldi/CFR_mating_pair_Bobby_02.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/77583138/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/116302530/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/81751847/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/118689364/large.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FotENHGIMFQ/UwcTv939-7I/AAAAAAAAb9I/o8sdE3MsKBE/s1600/CFR_adult_Bobby_02.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/176754461/large.jpeg


Ypthima horsfiedii humei
Ground colour white & striae dark grey-brown creating a greater contrast.
HW ocelli usually separated & HW spot 5 & 6 subequal, sometimes the upper spot 6 larger.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/202378023/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/10689989/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/25407077/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/12391384/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/19787589/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/10403320/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/212516374/large.jpeg


TL Seow: Cheers.

[Psyche]

Post 17.
Your shots.

Y. baldus
1 is probably a form of Y. horsfieldii. Correction: Y. baldus.
2 is typical Y. baldus.


Y horsfieldii.
1, 2, & 4 should be Y. baldus.
3 is Y. horsfieldii.


TL Seow: Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Thank you Dr Seow for the clarifications. It seems like there's quite a lot of variation in these two species, I'll have to take a closer look at them in the future.

Here's one more:
The ground colour seems rather white, spots 5 & 6 roughly equal, big spacing between spots 2 & 3, so this should be Y. horsfieldii?
27833

[Psyche]

Post 20.

I think it is Ypthima baldus.
I may be wrong.

In the past I followed the key as stated & only IDed as baldus those with HW spot 6 much smaller than spot 5 & spots 2 & 3 large & conjoined.

Howevr many valid examples of Y. baldus have smaller spots.
Y. baldus baldus from India.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sites/default/files/622_93068-270-61b1d4b139708-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sites/default/files/113_11803-1-572030f559928-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sites/default/files/1999_82360-676-609b4fb2bf8e1-1.jpg

These two are undoubted Y. horsfieldii humei.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/10689989/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/25407077/large.jpg


TL Seow: Cheers.
PS. Examples of Y. horsfieldii horsfieldii from Java.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/86262657/large.jpeg
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/6045975
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/179583991/large.jpg

PS 2. To meet the criteria for Y. baldus newboldi ie. large conjoined spots 2 & 3, and spot 5 much larger than spot 6, only one specimen from Yala ( lower left) will match.
The rest should be Y. horsfieldii humei.
This does not seem right.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/sat/41000010.html

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

Found this Abisara sp. in my school, is it Abisara geza? The HW doesn't have the vein dislocation but the tonal spots are very rounded. Thank you!

27995
27996

[Psyche]

Post 22.

Male Abisara geza.

Male is IDed by the rounded margin at HW vein 4, while female have a pointed 'tail'.
Both species varies in the dislocation at vein 4.

A. saturata. Tornal black spots pointed, teardrop shape.HW discal line usually not dislocated at vein 4.

Male ;FW with two parallel pale postdiscal bands not enhanced white & one submarginal white line.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Abisara%20saturata%20kausambiodes/5-23-2009-8-21-26-PM.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Abisara%20saturata%20kausambiodes/malayan-plum-judy-male-----sunny.jpg

Female with the inner of the two white submarginal lines merging with the white oblique band.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Abisara%20saturata%20kausambiodes/5-23-2009-8-20-35-PM.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yzw2AzY2du4/R7mhOQuwNEI/AAAAAAAAAwU/pP22KZy31zk/s1600/Abisara-saturata-female.jpg
https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/144867311/large.jpg



A. geza; HW twin tornal dlack spots rounded. ; HW discal line usually dislocated at vein 4.

Male with twin parallel postdiscal bands enhanced whitish, & two submarginal white lines .
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yzw2AzY2du4/R7mmWAuwNKI/AAAAAAAAAxE/Tfgn59RDYdY/s1600/Abisara-kausambi-7.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yzw2AzY2du4/R7mmSQuwNII/AAAAAAAAAw0/JbGFFMaKx08/s1600/Abisara-kausambi4.jpg

Female with the FW inner white line largely clear of the oblique white band. Female rare.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Abisara%20geza%20niya/SJ_Adult_CJ_01.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/180558387/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/138107819/large.jpeg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Abisara%20geza%20niya/SJ_adult_Frederick_02.jpg


TL Seow: Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Thank you Dr Seow!

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

Just a couple of ID requests. Thank you!

1. Pantoporia sp. Additional iNaturalist link: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/141239367
28096

2. Potanthus sp.
28097
28098

[Psyche]

Post 25.

1. Probably Pantoporia sandaka female.

You can see the abdomen is bulging & the FW foot of the postdiscal band is short.

Although the grey band is wide suggesting P. hordonia, the orange submarginal band is enhanced at the apex as in most P. sandaka.
It is no dofferent from this female.
https://singapore.biodiversity.online/species/A-Arth-Hexa-Lepidoptera-000472

More typical Male & female P. sandaka from Singapore ie with narrow grey band.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rzo8wjfyCsM/S_qG3iESjZI/AAAAAAAAGoo/KHbAWLGMapQ/s1600/CL_adult_Federick_02_c.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/239653648/large.jpg

Typical males & females P. hordonia P.Malaysia.
Males
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6TIVtGI_okk/U3dZiNWZG2I/AAAAAAAAOdc/ONasPwcgx60/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/DSC_0229.JPG
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/171645939/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/47153531/large.jpg
Females.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/2955450/large.JPG
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/29184148/large.jpg

You need to shoot a male from the same place.



2. Female Potanthus serina.
Abdominal end with a black band (less clear in the female)
FW spot 5 smaller than spot 4; HW ground brown dusted ;band with a small spot 6 on inner edge.
FW spot 8 may be small.
Females .
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/19967403
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/7706980/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/49880289/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/209258116/large.jpg


TL Seow; Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Thank you Dr Seow!

[Psyche]

So far all males taken in Singapore can only be identified as Pantoporia sandaka.

Central Cachment Area.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/63896423/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/233313247/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/143377414/large.jpg

Others.
Ulu Sembawang.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/229077807/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/224704101/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/229090835/large.jpg
Dairy Farm.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/201499459/large.jpg
Mandai Road.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/47342610/large.jpg
Upper Seletar.
https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/22617991/large.jpeg


TL Seow; Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

I have been trying to figure out the key ID features for the pavana group Nacadubas, but with not many images available online of live specimens, some of them have been rather challenging, especially N.pendleburyi and N.solta. Would it be possible for you to do an overview of the key IDs? Thank you.

These are some features I have noted/read, splitting the group into 2, with and without metallic scales in the tornal spot.

With metallic scales:

1. N. pactolus
- FW post-discal band typically straight
- Submarginal spots quite rectangular
- HW submarginal spot 6 large, spots 4 & 5 flattened.

2. N. hermus
- FW post-discal band typically straight
- FW submarginal spots chevron shaped
- HW post-discal band in spaces 4 & 5 very close to HW submarginal band

3. N. pavana
- FW post-discal band typically straight, sometimes with dislocations
- Prominent white 'bar/band' running through submarginal spots
- Marginal spots bar-like

4. N. russelli
- Marginal spots oval/lozenge-shaped
- Outer margins of submarginal spots pointed

5. N. angusta (should be distinct enough)
- Broad and diffused whitish striae
- Strongly contrasting black submarginal and marginal spots
- HW submarginal spot 6 large and rounded

Without metallic scales:

1. N. sanaya
- FW post-discal band typically dislocated at vein 6
- HW post-discal band well separated from HW submarginal band

2. N. subperusia
- FW post-discal band gently curved but not markedly dislocated towards costa
- HW post-discal band in spaces 4 & 5 very close to submarginal band (almost touching)
- HW submarginal spots strongly concave and dark, contrasting greatly from ground colour

3. N. pendleburyi
- FW post-discal band gently curves towards costa
- HW post-discal band well separated from HW submarginal band

4. N. solta
- FW post-discal band straight

[Psyche]

Post 29.
The 4-line Blues are very difficult to Id from the underside alone in many species and it is likely there were many mis-identifications in the past.
The dark striae within the bands are important in the Ids.

A. Dark striae within bands strongly developed ,appearing black.
Metallic scales on HW tornal spots always strong.

A1. Nacaduba pavana.
HW marginasl spots with their inner margins level, 'flat'.
Female.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Nacaduba%20pavana%20singapura/NP_adult_female_01.jpg

A2. Nacaduba russelli.
HW marginal spots lozenge shaped, ie. with the inner margins oval.
FW submarginal spots large.
https://thaibutterflies.com/Butterflies/nacaduba-russelli/
Some past observations are probably this species.
These have strong dark striae & should not be N. hermus.
https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/257850370/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/97292348/large.jpg


B. Dark striae within the bands absent or rather weak.

B1. Nacaduba hermus.
Dark sriae weak, not blackish.
Metallic scales in the HW tornal spot often sparse.
HW submarginal spots 4 & 5 with rounded margins & close to the postdiscal spots/band.
Males.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/100539878/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/100606496/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/119971747/large.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47695214992_c981d68726_c.jpg
Female.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/131214343/large.jpeg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/256861467/large.jpg


B2. Nacaduba pactolus.
White striae buff, enhanced.
Metallic scales on tornal spot strong.
HW submarginal spot 6 quadrate & connect sharply to a narrow band formed by submarginal spots 4 & 5; Distinctive.
Male.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Nacaduba%20pactolus%20odon/Nacaduba%20pactolus%20odon%20-%20horace.jpg


B3.Nacaduba angusta.
White striae broad & spots dark.
HW spot 6 large & round.
Metallic scales in tornal spot strong.
Female - left.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Nacaduba%20angusta%20kerriana/Nacaduba%20angusta%20kerriana%20-%20khew%202.jpg


B4. Nacaduba sanaya.
No metallic scales on HW tornal spots.
FW postdiscal spots usually dislocated at vein 6.
HW postdiscal spots & submarginal spots well separated in space 4 & 5.
This species present a confusing picture as the spacing in HW space 4 & 5 varies.
Forms with the HW submarginals & postdiscals in space 4 & 5 spaced apart.(as described in the text.)
Male & female.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/24578753/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/252374238/large.jpg
Forms in which HW submarginals & postdiscals are very close.
Male & female.
https://www.besgroup.org/wp-content/uploads/Jewel-Fourline-Blue-Nacaduba-sanaya-elioti-LenaChow.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/235705990/large.jpg

It is possible some other species are involved but without upperside pix, it is difficult to wrk this out.


B5 Nacaduba subperusia lysa.
Ssp lysa is the lowland form recorded in Singapore.
No metallic scales on HW spot
HW submarginal spots in space $ & 5 with rounded margins & always close to the postdiscal spots.
FW postdiscal band less often dislocated.
Male P. Malaysia.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ToaJYf3xH1I/WJ0ItEWBAaI/AAAAAAAAce4/c2ysVd4KLzc71tR2z8rMtryoL7fG0gbYwCLcB/s1600/DSC_2628.JPG
Female Thailand.
https://thaibutterflies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Nacaduba-subperusia.jpg


B6.Nacaduba pendleburyi
FW postdiscal band not dislocated.
HW with the submarginals & postdiscals in space 4 & 5 well separated.
Upperside with the FW black border a thread & expanded at the apex in the male (Diagnostic.)
Added: FW marginal & submarginal spots narrow, submarginal spots 4 & 5 pointed.

B7. Nacaduba solta.
FW with a very straight postdiscal band as in N. calauria
This species is not found in Singapore.



TL Seow: Cheers..

PS. It is very likely that what was thought to be one variable N. sanaya species in Singapore actually comprise two equally common species, ie. N. sanaya & subperusia..
Previous use (for comparison) of N. perusia images with only features of dark markings & unbroken postdiscal band ( from neighbourig countries ) is probably untenable.

PS 2. The two males from Thailand match the image of N. pendleburyi male in C&P4.
HW with wide spacing of postdiscals & submarginals in space 3, 4, & 5.
FW marginal & submarginal bands narrow, submarginal spots 4 & 5 pointed.
https://pamsbutterflies.com/butterfly/296/nacaduba-sanaya-elioti

One observation looks correct for male N. pendleburyi
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/112126841

[LJK1410]

Thank you for the detailed reply Dr Seow!

I was looking through some iNaturalist observations and this one seems a little different to me with the way the FW post-discal band curves: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/71003020
Could it be N.pendleburyi? Of course without dorsals it is difficult to confirm.

But it matches quite closely to this observation which was IDed as N.pendleburyi, https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/117297085

[Psyche]

Post 31.

There is very little correct image of N. pendleburyi
All known shows the marginal & submarginal spots/bands to be very narrow.
While the band may be curved in pendleburyi,similar bands are also seen in sanaya & subperusia, & probably several others.
I would leave it as N. sanaya since the submarginals are large.

Two images below are definitely N. sanaya males.
If you use google zoom you can see violet at the apex.
In N. pendleburyi, it would be black.
There are examples where the postdiscal band is not dislocated; it would then be curved.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/24578753/large.jpg
https://static.inaturalist.org/photos/225741909/large.jpg


TL Seow: Cheers.

[Psyche]

Nacaduba subperusia lysa.
Examples.
Cambodia.
https://geenature.com/taxa/animalia/subspecies/nacaduba-subperusia-lysa
Thailand.
https://thaibutterflies.com/Butterflies/nacaduba-superusia/
P. Malaysia.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CCzm1ZlQsQE/UrRNXf_V1vI/AAAAAAAAM_c/083nczhETzE/s1600/HFH_0013+Nacaduba+subperusia+lysa.jpg
http://nlliew66butterflies.blogspot.com/2019/01/nacaduba-subperusia-lysa-fruhstorfer.html
Singapore.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/154051306
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/138368856

N. sanaya.
The key indicates that the space between the submarginal & postdiscal spots in HW spaces 4 & 5 should be at least half the width of the postdiscal band.
This will only allow those in which the submarginals & postdiscals are almost touching to be excluded.
The FW submarginal spots have mostly convex margins in subperusia & straight margins in sanaya.
These examples are probably N. sanaya.
https://www.besgroup.org/wp-content/uploads/Jewel-Fourline-Blue-Nacaduba-sanaya-elioti-LenaChow.jpg
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/147389511
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/248185068/large.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/241720733/original.jpg
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/122293843/large.jpg
This one seem close enough to suggest N. subperusia.
The postdiscal band can not be used to confirm an ID.
https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/250216886/large.jpg

Some shots with narrow FW peripheral bands & wide HW spacing suggest. N. pendleburyi
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/23644499
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/112126841

TL Seow; Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Quite a few of my previously IDed N. sanaya females have the HW post-discal band close to the submarginal band,

These I'm still fairly confident is still N.sanaya since the HW submarginals are not strongly convex:
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/128760828
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/137955412

This was the one you pointed out above, but would the HW submarginals be considered convex?
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/145646317

This one has more convex submarginals and the HW post-discal and submarginal bands are close together, possible for N.subperusia lysa? No better/closer shots unfortunately.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/124359422


This observation of a female from Cambodia clearly showing the convex HW submarginals:
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/42730361

[Psyche]

Post 34.

1. This is a male & the HW spacing is quite wide. No issue.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/128760828

2. This have the HW submarginals with straighter margin so suggest N. sanaya.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/137955412

3. This has the HW spacing even closer, HW submarginal spots variable.
If this is given to someone new, he would IDed as subperusia by the key.
You can only convinced him by netting a specimen for examination to confirm it.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/145646317
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/81210010.html

4. This appears to be N. hermus.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/124359422
A better pic showing the metallic scales.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/149097939


Typical N. sanaya females.
Wallace Collection
https://wallace.biodiversity.online/species/A-Arth-Hexa-Lepidoptera-000059
Bred by Horace.
https://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Nacaduba%20sanaya%20elioti/jewel%204%20line%20blue%20-%20horace%20tan.jpg
Panti Forest, Johor.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gancw1/14350846826


TL Seow: Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

I got some Arhopalas that I'm not too sure about. I know this group is really difficult for a definitive ID but any pointers would be much appreciated!

1. Arhopala athada? Thought the HW spots 6 & 7 seem quite different from a typical A.athada. Could it be something else? Shot at Upper Seletar Reservoir.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/172636328
28452

2. Arhopala sublustris? I recall the size was smaller than A.athada. Shot at Bukit Timah Nature Reserve.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/177311767
28453
28454

3. alea subgroup. This one was shot in Panti Forest, Johor, Malaysia.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/175865453
28455
28456

4. Another alea subgroup from Panti Forest, but no upperside shots.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/175865588
28457

[Psyche]

Post 36.

1. This should be A. silhetensis.
The two have been frequently confused as there are A. silhetensis with wider spots.
There is an error in the key line 152.

HW spots 6 & 7 are oblique, the outer edge of spot 7 is well inside the outer edge of spot 6.
spot 6, outer margin sinuous, does not overlap spot 5 or the cellend bar.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4f/82240010.html

2. Arhopala milleri.
The upperside of the male is less shiny indigo blue .
In general UnF spot 9 is not shifted inwards from the band or only slightly.
UnH spot 6 is wider at the top & narrower at the bottom.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4f/82160001.html



3. Probably correct as A. sublustris female .
Spot 9 at the costa is often strongly dislocated & shifted inwards.
UnH spot is wider at the top & narrower downwards, as in milleri.
Upperside is a bright blue. Female with the brown border of uniform width at the tornus.


4. This looks the same as 3 & is probably A. sublustris.


Other species recorded in Singapore.

A. normani.
As in sublustris, but UnH spot 6 have straighter side margins.

A. phanda.
UnH spot 6 & 7 blocky large arranged like a column.

A. aroa.
Underside bands narrow, thus widely spaced apart.
UnH spot 6 triangular, with the point on thecellend bar.


Three other species in P. Malaysia, A selta, phaenops, & evans have UnH spot 6 not tapered downwards.



TL Seow: Cheers

[LJK1410]

Thank you Dr Seow!

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

Shot a alea subgroup member at MacRitchie Nature Trail today, managed to get a shot that shows some of the uppersides. Would this be 'bright blue' or 'matt blue'? In person it seemed as a pretty dark blue to me as it was flying, but I don't really have a good baseline to compare the colours with.

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/189834021
28462
28463

[Psyche]

Yes ,this would be a good example of a male Arhopala sublustris.
Other examples.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86168391
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86165404
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86282154
Formerly as A. ralanda ridleyi.
https://singapore.biodiversity.online/species/A-Arth-Hexa-Lepidoptera-000443
https://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4f/82170010.html

A. milleri is described as more matt (ie. less reflective) indigo blue.
The Satun male have a bit more light.
https://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4f/82160001.html

A. normani is also a deeper darkish blue.
https://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4f/82140001.html
https://singapore.biodiversity.online/species/A-Arth-Hexa-Lepidoptera-000439

TL Seow:Cheers.

[LJK1410]

Thank you Dr Seow!

[LJK1410]

Hi Dr Seow,

I got some Arhopalas that I'm not too sure about. I know this group is really difficult for a definitive ID but any pointers would be much appreciated!

1. Arhopala athada? Thought the HW spots 6 & 7 seem quite different from a typical A.athada. Could it be something else? Shot at Upper Seletar Reservoir.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/172636328
28452

2. Arhopala sublustris? I recall the size was smaller than A.athada. Shot at Bukit Timah Nature Reserve.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/177311767
28453
28454

3. alea subgroup. This one was shot in Panti Forest, Johor, Malaysia.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/175865453
28455
28456

4. Another alea subgroup from Panti Forest, but no upperside shots.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/175865588
28457

Hi Dr Seow,

I was relooking at the first Arhopala and thinking if it could be A.lurida. It seems to match the features you mentioned on the other thread. FW PD spot 4 dislocated and shifted outwards, HW PD completely dislocated at vein 2, HW spot 7 also shifted inwards, the markings are also contrasting quite heavily. I reattached some other shots of the same butterfly, with a glimpse of the dorsals. I've kept the editing to bare minimum, only touching the exposure slightly. Though I can’t say for certain since the most important part is blocked, but the dorsal borders do seem to be widening towards the apex.

28521
28522
28523

[Psyche]

The Oakblues can be very difficult even if you have a specimen in hand.

There are some errors in the past to clear up.

The epimuta group.
Fw with spot 4 distinctly dislocated & shifted out (visible from both margins).
HW with postdiscal spots 5, 6, & 7 staggered in a stepladder fashion.
HW 'V" spot in space 1b narrow & well-formed.
HW tornal green metalmark sharply demarcated with 2-3 black spots.
A. epimuta
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhXAvCvKtp9AOJH4JRtTBaZ1tq78wCKAz3Yj6blyZ3UqR 4K-2aDve-jrsN9IKgmkSXKXjWCNMjK3Ly74kN5c1vBOWPvIgMt1pwNnDkIa ST6mUedpb6BOtNVinB5ms_Xl2S7oCbr2vqtTfX5/s1600/AE_adult_02.jpg
A. atosia.
https://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Arhopala%20atosia%20malayana/A_atosia_02.jpg
A. lurida.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/9232838
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/18162232


The cleander group.
FW postdiscal spot 4 in line with the rest above it (spots 5, 6, & 9),Less often there may be a slight dislocation outwards of spot 4.
HW postdiscal spots 5, 6, & 7 not arranged in a stepladder fashion, spot 7 being on top of spot 6.
"V" spot in space 1b not well-formed.
HW tornal green metalmark poorly defined with a diffuse inner border.

A. sublustris , alea subgroup.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/189834021
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86165404
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86168391
A. athada athada. cleander subgroup, large.
https://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Arhopala%20athada%20athada/Vinous%20Oakblue%203%20-%20horace.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/budak/52257441172/
A. silhetensis adorea. cleander subgroup.
https://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Arhopala%20silhetensis%20adorea/Sylhet%20Oakblue%202%20-%20horace.jpg
https://thaibutterflies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Arhopala-silhetensis-adorea2.jpg
https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Arhopala_silhetensis_adorea#/media/File:ArhopalaSilhetensisAdoreaMUpUnAC1.jpg

[Psyche]

#1https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/172636328

The wide spacing between the postdiscal & the submarginal spots on the HW is indicative of a large species.
The oblique shape of HW spot 6, wider at the top is indicate of A. silhetenssis.
A. athada always have a blocky spot 6 nearly astride the cellend & spot 5.



#2 https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/177311767

The dull blue upperside already indicate it is A. milleri.



#3https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/175865453
The upperside merely shows a female.
The straighter parallel sides of spot 6 suggest A. normani.
https://www.singapore.biodiversity.online/species/A-Arth-Hexa-Lepidoptera-000439


#4https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/175865588
Probably A. sublustris.
FW spot 8 is more dislocated inwards.


Finally this observation which I thought was A. lurida is an alea group member.
Note mwtalmark with diffuse border.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/193582308



TLSeow; Cheers.